Myron Sylling farms over 1,600 acres with his brother, Mikal, in Spring Grove, Minnesota. Through various on-farm research trials, the Sylling brothers have been able to get an accurate read on the benefits of cover crops in their no-till system.
On this week’s edition of Cover Crop Strategies, brought to you by Verdesian Life Sciences, Myron details how cover crops are paying off, from scavenging nutrients to increasing soil organic matter by 1%.
Myron also explains the importance of on-farm testing and shares a valuable tip that could help prevent yield loss when planting green with corn.
The Cover Crop Strategies podcast series is brought to you by Verdesian Life Sciences.
At Verdesian Life Sciences, we believe that supplying healthy water and soil for the next generation is just as important as supplying efficient nutrients for every crop farmers grow. For us, sustainability and profitability go hand in hand. That’s why we call ourselves The Nutrient Use Efficiency People. We have dedicated ourselves to providing prescriptive nutrient use efficiency solutions that improve plant uptake and reduce fertilizer losses, helping preserve the environment and make the most of your investment. Learn more at vlsci.com or talk to your ag retailer today about Verdesian products.
Full Transcript
Noah Newman:
Great to have you with us. Once again, on the Cover Crop Strategies podcast, brought to you by Verdesian Life Sciences. I'm your host, Noah Newman. First generation farmer, James Hep is on the hot seat this week. Let's waste no time diving right into the conversation. Here's James.
James Hepp:
Hi, my name's James Hepp from [inaudible 00:00:23] City Iowa, located at [inaudible 00:00:25] County, North Central Iowa. I farm row crop corn soybeans, 1,400 acres, and I've been incorporating cover crop more and more each year. I also do a lot of strip till with it. Last few years, I've been doing a lot of rye.
Noah Newman:
Well, we'll get into the details of your cover crop system there, James, but I wanted to start with a little bit more about your background. Just give us your origin story. Do you come from a farming background, or are you first generation? Tell us about that.
James Hepp:
Yeah, actually I'm a first generation farmer, and I just had an article in a magazine here recently by Darcy Maulsby, and it tells my story. Grew up Rockwell City. My dad's a mechanic, had a repair shop. I was always around farming, my grandpa farmed, but just never had the chance to farm. So I did a lot of FFA stuff in high school, and that really intrigued me, and led me down my ag business career path through Iowa Central at Northwest Missouri State.
Then, when I came home, I was a crop insurance adjuster for several years, and that got my foot in the door with a few people. And then, it ended up one of my high school friends, his dad was going to retire, so he wanted me to help him. So, I began helping him. And a couple years later, things went so well, he decided to kind of turn the reins over to me. So, I'm on my about third year of farming with him. And I'm basically, I've taken over majority of the acres now. He still helps me whenever he feels like, or whenever he can, which is very helpful. And I'm still learning a lot from him, but I've been doing that. I got married here two years ago now, so my wife's been helping me and we have an eight month old son, Carston. So, hopefully he'll be helping me one of these days also.
Noah Newman:
Oh, I'm sure he will. That's pretty exciting stuff. We don't get to talk to many first generation farmers. And so, how's it been? Just your first three, you said three years now you've been doing it. So, a lot of learning experiences, I'd assume?
James Hepp:
Yeah. With my crop insurance job, I had a lot of down time in between stuff. So, I was able to help a local farmer for several years, and he taught me everything I needed to know. So, it would be a lot harder transition if I wouldn't have worked for him, but equipment operations, maintenance, all that stuff, I learned all that from that guy. So, I give him props for that. So, it hasn't been near as bad. You go from just farming a little bit more for fun to making decisions, paying bills. That gets scary when you see all the zeros behind the money that you borrow for stuff, but otherwise it's been a really good transition. Keith, the guy I farm with, I don't think you could find a better person, more understanding more patient.
He's been very helpful. We work together really well. He's taught me a lot. We've bounced a lot of ideas off each other. There's not a lot of first generation farmers, but I think there could be in the future. Since my article has come out in the Progressive Farmer, I've had several people reach out and ask more in depth how I did it. And since then, there's been some people that say, "Hey, I've started working with another guy that's going to be retiring in the near future, and I think we're going to try and do something similar," which is the goal. Nothing against big farmers, but it's nice to see young blood and just have a family on the farm, and it's a good lifestyle. And if you do it right, it's good for everybody. So, that's why I want to try and help people, and if they have a side job, you don't need a ton of acres to make a living. And so, we've had a lot of good feedback from it.
Noah Newman:
Absolutely. You have a great story. I'm not shocked that you're getting a lot of interest from it, and hearing from a lot of people. That's great to hear. Let's talk about how you're using cover crops. So, what was your big motivation for implementing cover crops into your system?
James Hepp:
Well, the guy I farmed with, Keith, he was doing some rye for several years, trying it. And I seen it, it just looked like there was a lot of benefits to it. So, I jumped in head first a little bit. Couple years ago, I did 80 acres and I felt like I did about everything wrong that you could do wrong, but it turned out really good. The beans were in the mid sixties and the beans that were not in cover crop yielded the same, so I knew I didn't have a penalty there. I really like the ground cover. We're pretty flat up there, so erosion's not really a huge issue for me. More just weed suppression is my biggest goal, along with just overall soil health. The rye, to me, almost seemed like a tillage path almost because the root systems are so huge.
So, when I strip till for my corn, I strip till my soybeans double, I noticed the last couple years when I did it, I'd be going all day long at 5, 5.5 mile an hour. When I'd get into that ground that had that rye in it that previous year, I would speed up at least 0.5 miles an hour to 0.75 mile an hour.
So, to most people that's not much, but to a farmer, if you can not change anything and speed up, you got good soil till, or whatever you want to call it. So, I just think there's a lot of benefits to it. This spring, I noticed all my neighbors had standing water in their fields, and I went to my field, which was lower field, and there wasn't standing water. So, I feel like the percolation for the water was much better. I don't have that hard compaction there for field cultivators. And I also enjoy not having to use as much diesel fuel, or have a huge tractor. My main tractor's only 260 horse that I strip till with and plant with. So, that's nice not needing a 500 horse tractor and to go [inaudible 00:05:50] the payments and the diesel fuel.
Noah Newman:
Yeah. You mentioned weed suppression is one of your top motivators. Just what impact have you seen from cover crops? Have those helped a lot with cutting down on weeds?
James Hepp:
Yeah. The last couple years, we did a lot of non-GMO beans, and our market's kind of gone away, so we switched E3s this year, but last year I think with everybody, we had a lot of water hemp issues, and there's just nothing you could do with it between the dry weather. But my 80 acres, it was a half section. I did 80 acres of rye, and the 80 acres was spotless. I don't think you could have found a water hemp out there. And the rest of the field was typical of everybody else or worse. And it was noticeable enough: I had people driving by and they'd call and say, "Hey, what's going on? How come that one side's so clean?" So, I was really impressed with it. So, that weed suppression was really good.
And I learned a lot. We did some... The big thing was to keep it tall. Let it grow out so you get that nice mat for weed suppression, but especially with chemical costs taking off this year, that just really intrigued me even more to try and push the cover crop a little harder. And if I could skip a second post pass, and or skip a post pass in general, that adds up pretty... Depending what products you use, you can eat up $20, $30 an acre really fast on a post pass, it seems like. So, if you can avoid that, that's a lot of money in the bank.
And then, like I said, with all the benefits underground that you can't see, and you can't really put a dollar amount to, I think it's a win-win all the way around. So, it just takes more management, and it's different, and it's uncomfortable if you don't know what you're doing because I felt pretty uncomfortable because it's a lot easier just to do it the way you've always done it. But like I said, it's fun, but uncomfortable too, to try stuff new because you don't want people laughing at you, but I think I'm gaining, though, in the right direction.
Noah Newman:
Yeah. It sounds like you're having some success with it. Someone once told me that when you get out of your comfort zone, that's when great things happen. So, it sounds like that's happening for you with cover crops. So let me ask you this: what are some of the biggest lessons you learned from your first few years using them?
James Hepp:
Well, like I said, for height, we've done some stuff where we didn't let it get tall enough, and we terminated it too quick because we're in non-GMO beans, and any hint of Roundup is not very good on those. So, we only let it get to about a foot tall and terminated it. I feel like we got probably half the weed suppression I would've wanted, but when I let it get over a knee-high, mid-thigh, I felt like our weed suppression was way better. And it's really scary because it looks terrible out there. It's hard to see your beans, and you're literally just doing it by faith, but it does work out, but that was my biggest thing was getting it taller.
In the past, we rigged up an old oat feeder on our [inaudible 00:08:41]. We have a small DCS-10 [inaudible 00:08:44], and we've had an oat feeder out the back, but we could get about 15, 18 rows at a time with it spreading that rye and standing corn. And that worked pretty good for virtually costing nothing, but we hated running down stuff. And this last year, we seeded it after harvest, and besides having that early growth, I really couldn't see a lot of difference between them. And it's just, it's a lot more work using that [inaudible 00:09:10] because like I said, you worry about running over corn. And now, with the higher corn prices, you hate to be knocking ears off and you got $5 and $6 corn doing that and stuff.
And like I said, also, I don't really worry about the erosion as much for that early growth in the fall, so I've had really good luck where it barely grew at all in the fall, but come spring, once that snow's gone, that stuff just takes off like a rocket, and it really starts to grow, and it looks good. This year, I got a little nervous and I put my residual down, and I learned, I doubt... I learned if you put your residual down, you might as well kill the rye because it pretty much stunted it, because there was areas where I didn't put residual down, and the rye kept growing, but where I put my residual down, which worked really good, it just stunted the rye growth. The rye just quit growing.
So I did learn that, which I thought was really interesting, and I had no clue that was going to happen because I planted my beans in a rye that was about six inches tall, and that planted just beautiful. And then, I let it grow for a couple weeks, and then I went out there and put my residual down because I had a few pockets where the rye stand wasn't as thick as I like, and I wanted to make sure I kept the weeds out. So. I just sprayed the field, but that was the one thing I learned last year was my residual will just stop your growth.
Noah Newman:
Let's burn a quick time out and thank our sponsor, Verdesian Life Sciences. They have a special message for you: at Verdesian Life Sciences, we believe that supplying healthy water and soil for the next generation is just as important as applying efficient nutrients for every crop farmers grow. For us, sustainability and profitability go hand in hand. That's why we call ourselves the nutrient use efficiency people. We have dedicated ourselves to providing prescriptive nutrient use efficiency solutions that improve plant uptake and reduce fertilizer losses, helping preserve the environment, and make the most of your investment. Learn more at vlsci.com. Now, back to the podcast.
Yeah, so you mentioned that you use the [inaudible 00:11:11]. What other equipment have you used to seed cover crops, and what pieces of equipment do you like the best, and which ones maybe have you had some issues with?
James Hepp:
Sure. Well, so we have the old [inaudible 00:11:24], and we rigged it up where it runs through our [inaudible 00:11:26] box. So, we had to manually calibrate it to figure out... We were trying to get 50-60 pounds to the acre, but we rigged that up on the back of the [inaudible 00:11:35], and that worked really well. And then like I said, last year I still used the [inaudible 00:11:39], but I just went out there after we combined. I probably should have got out there sooner, but it was a few weeks went by, and then I went out and seeded it, and that worked really well, but I bought a similar seeder just like it at an auction last year. I didn't get around using it yet, but I bought that, and that's a a [inaudible 00:11:56] style, so I'll be able to just put that behind any of our old tractors, and just kind of go out there and count rows and it should do about the same thing, get 16 rows at a time or so.
And that works really good for a [inaudible 00:12:10]. I think when I get my cover crop more fine-tuned, I would really like to get a Gandy or some of those... There's a lot of different styles, like an air seeder, and mount it to a [inaudible 00:12:21] that's like 40 feet wide. So, then you're getting the hose drop down and doing it after harvest. I'd really like to do that, but I'm still experimenting on timing. And then of course, the farming, nothing's the same year to year. So, every year's different, but I feel like I'm onto something, but when I get it more polished though, I would like to invest in more of an air seeder style application.
Noah Newman:
Yeah. Those air seeders, those sound like they're pretty popular right now. It sounds like overseeding. You're big into overseeding. Tell us about that and the success you've had with it.
James Hepp:
Yeah. I know a lot of guys use drills, and I just don't have a drill. So, we just started doing that over the top. There's been years where Keith used a rotary hoe, and after he seeded it, he went in with a rotary hoe, and he found that really didn't make a huge difference. We disturbed the soil a little bit. Vertical tills work too, but it just seems like for speed, we've been really happy with [inaudible 00:13:18] drive over the top, and apply that cover crop. Some guys will use a vertical till also, and that works really good too, but in the past we've gotten by really good with just using that over the top, I guess, for speed. Like I said, not having to buy extra equipment.
Noah Newman:
Gotcha. And then, what species have you experimented with? You mentioned rye, obviously. Any other ones come to mind?
James Hepp:
Yeah, mainly rye. We tried some oats here a couple years ago, but I think it was so dry, my residual chemistry in the soil, the oats are really picky. Rye will almost grow on anything, but the oats, they just did not grow at all. So, I was bummed out. I'm hoping to try that more since I didn't put residual down with my post pass. I'd like to do oats with my corn. So, that's my plan for next year is to try and get oats put out here next spring, and let that grow a little bit, and then terminate it in my corn. That's my plan, that's what I'd like to do. And maybe add different things to my rye. I'm not sure yet. I try and keep it simple, and I don't want to change too many things from year to year, so I know what's working and what's not. But I would like to add species to that. I know a lot of guys that have had more success with different species, but I'm working on that one so, not really sure what else to try yet, but...
Noah Newman:
Well, here we are, it's already the middle of August. I can't believe it. And I know you're a busy guy, you're out driving around right now in your car. What's on your to-do list here in these next few weeks in terms of cover crops or something new you're looking to implement on your farm?
James Hepp:
Well, I'm scouting field. I'm going to do some pan testing on some soil, and get like a [inaudible 00:14:55] pan, put dirt in it, the top soil, and then seed some oats in it, and then water it and see if it grows, instead of learning my hard lesson I learned here a couple years ago where the oats didn't grow. So, I'm going to do that. And hopefully if that's a green light, then I'll start looking for a source for oats. That's my plan. And I'm probably going to just start checking fields and see where I want to do stuff at. I'd like to do lots and plots where like I'll do half the field with cover crop and half without. So, I need to do a little better job of laying out what my test is going to be instead of just going by the seat of the pants.
I want to try and map out what fields I want to do what in, and start looking for some seed source. I've talked to a few guys on [inaudible 00:15:35] rye. Two years ago, we grew rye... The guy farm with, he grew 80 acres of rye for actual seed production. And that was really interesting. We didn't do it this year, but we might look into doing it again in the future. It yielded quite well, and it was interesting to see something out there besides corn beans.
But otherwise, I'm just getting ready for harvest, trying to plan stuff. You can't plan enough, it seems like, but just same old, same old. Just trying to learn and grow. And all my tests, I try to do something where I learn something. It's pretty easy to get out there and just change stuff constantly, but I really want to try and learn and see what worked and what didn't, and find out why it didn't work. So, I try not to do the exact same things over and over again. I try to anyways, but it always happens.
Noah Newman:
Yeah. Well, it sounds like you're getting ready to make a lot of changes. You talked about wanting to maybe look into an air seeder and experiment with different species. What about plant green? What's your experience been like in that department?
James Hepp:
Yeah, I've had really good look. Like I said, it's one of scary things because a couple years ago, when I first started that rye, we planted it in the standing corn. And by the time came fit to plant our beans, that rye was, mid-thigh high, and it was scary. I went out there and planted it. I couldn't see the ground, but I planted it, and had real good luck with it. Made sure the closing... The biggest thing was the closing wheels. We have the spike closing wheels on our planter, and you need to tweak those a little bit, and also have down force. I think if you're going to plant green, if it's going to be very tall, I think you're going to want some source of down force for sure. But that's what... Planting green's great though.
Like I said, it's very scary. You wonder, "What in the world am I doing out here?" The grass is taller than your hood almost on your tractor, but the biggest thing is I can tell anybody is, don't judge it by looks, because last year, we were out in fields. I honestly thought, "Man, I wonder if I should [inaudible 00:17:38] these beans down," and those are the beans that did 65 bushel. So they, they looked very sketchy, but they yielded really well. The combine doesn't lie. They yielded well, and my ROI was very big, because like I said, I didn't have [inaudible 00:17:53] the chemicals. And, there's so many benefits to that rye that you can't really put a dollar amount to.
Noah Newman:
Yeah. Especially with the nutrients scavenging, you mentioned input reduction. That's huge. That seems like a big motivator for everyone right now.
James Hepp:
Yeah. And this year, I really tried step it up, my tissue sampling, and this was the first year I tissue sampled beans. I did corn in the past, but I did some beans that had rye in it this spring, and then it was part of the field. So, I did it where there was rye, and then I did it where there wasn't rye 50 feet away. So, it should be pretty constant. But the tissue samples came back a fair amount higher in the areas where the rye was. So I don't know, I'm hoping to do it more next year, but I hate to assume, but I would think the rye scattered stuff, and it just could come back higher, because it's the same variety of bean, and it was about 50 feet apart, and then over to the edge where I had [inaudible 00:18:51] I didn't to try and get a fair sample. And like I said, the numbers were higher.
So, I was impressed with that. And I think even future years, when I had rye last year, I have corn now, those numbers were a touch higher. And I normally fertilize [inaudible 00:19:07] until I get one corn blend, a renewal rate corn blend. So, it's not like that part of the field would've been treated differently, and my tests were fairly close. So, within 100 feet, it's hard to blame anything else besides... Like I said, I think that rye picked up some of that nutrients, held onto it, and then slowly released it like it's supposed to be. And last year, I guess another thing I forgot to mention, but when we had that frost, I know like on the radio, everybody was saying, "Oh, if you got [inaudible 00:19:37] cover crops, you're in trouble," but mine did the opposite.
It got cold, but it was warm earlier, and I think the tall cover crop trapped the heat to the ground, and I did not see any [inaudible 00:19:47] reduction. Where our fields that didn't have cover crop, they had [inaudible 00:19:51] reduction from that frost. I believe it was by a third. So, that was another one of those things where man, if something happens, you got to just keep trying it because it's never the same, but I really have not had any negatives in cover crop, besides you just second guess yourself a lot. And we're like, "Man, am I crazy?" In my area, we're pretty black land up here. Guys really like to rip and field cultivate, which [inaudible 00:20:16]. If that works for them, that's fine. I joke with people, I'm the hippie in this area because when you're going through, you'll see [inaudible 00:20:24] stalks, you'll see some rye, no till, and I feel like my yields are just as good as theirs, if not better, but it goes back to the ROI.
If I can spend $20 on a rye cover crop and save $20 on chemical, I'm all for that, because I personally don't enjoy spraying. It takes a lot of time, and costs a lot, but it's all the benefits you get out of it too. So, it'll be really interesting next couple years. I want to keep testing stuff, and adding it to it, and just see, but I really think that [inaudible 00:20:56] growth underneath, and the weed suppression, I think, will be a big deal because these weeds are getting smarter by the day. And I think weeds are going to continue to be a problem. So, if we can get those weeds suppression a lot better, I think we'll be sitting a lot better, I think.
Noah Newman:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, James, I know you're a busy guy, so I won't keep you much longer, but anything else you'd like to add or share with our listeners before we let you go?
James Hepp:
Well, my advice is just try it. Don't don't do the whole farm [inaudible 00:21:27] or something. Do 10, 20 acres and go out there and seed it. You don't need anything fancy. Dig out your grandpa's oat seeder or something like that, and get it fine tuned, and try that, or have somebody with a drill. Just go out there and try some, and take note of it, take pictures, and then check it constantly. And then, see what the combine tells you.
The biggest thing is, don't get down by looks, because like I said, sometimes it will look, especially if you're used everything being black, and clean, and great, you'll see your cover crop, you're like, "Man, this is crazy," but like I said, the numbers talk, and I just really encourage people to just try some. You're not going to be out much if you do 10, 20 acres, but I think you'll like it. And if you have any questions, I have my personal Facebook page, James Hepp. Anybody feel free to shoot me a message, or you can maybe post my contact info too on the podcast, but I'd be more than happy to encourage people, or answer questions, or if I don't know the question or the answer, I might know someone who does too. But the biggest thing is just try stuff. Get out outside your comfort zone.
Noah Newman:
And that wraps up this week's edition of Cover Crop Strategies. Thanks again to James Hepp for joining us, and thanks to our sponsor, Verdesian Life Sciences, for making it possible. Until next time, for all things cover crops, head to covercropstrategies.com.
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