We're paying a visit to southwest Kansas this week to catch up with no-tiller Nick Vos. He started using cover crops shortly after moving to the U.S. from South Africa in 2006.
For this episode of Cover Crop Strategies, brought to you by La Crosse Seed, Vos explains how cover crops play a critical role in his operation, especially when it comes to overcoming moisture challenges in the Dust Bowl.
He also reflects on challenges faced and lessons learned over the last decade, and names his MVC (Most Valuable Cover).
The Cover Crop Strategies podcast series is brought to you by La Crosse Seed.
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Full Transcript
Noah Newman:
Hello, and welcome once again to another edition of the Cover Crop Strategies podcast. I'm your host, Noah Newman, associate editor. Before we get started, let's thank our sponsor, La Crosse Seed. Solving the soil health puzzle, La Crosse Seed has you covered. Cover crops are an important piece to future profit, but it takes work, and it's puzzling at times. La Crosse Seed delivers quality Soil First cover crop products, plus training and tools to help you succeed. Whether you're looking to grow your cover crop seed business, get product tips, or find a local Soil First dealer, La Crosse Seed is ready to help. Learn more at soil1st.com. That's soil1st.com or call 800-356-SEED.
Noah Newman:
This week, we're catching up with southwest Kansas no-tiller, Nick Vos. Nick started using cover crops shortly after moving to the United States from South Africa in 2006. On this episode of the podcast, Vos explains how cover crops play a critical role in his operation especially when it comes to overcoming moisture challenges in the Dust Bowl. He also reflects on challenges faced and tips learned over the last decade and names his MVC, most valuable cover. Without further ado, here's Nick.
Nick Vos:
Well, we're here in the Dust Bowl. If you're familiar where that is, we're in the southwest Kansas area. We also have a little bit of land in the Panhandle, the Oklahoma Panhandle. We raise sheep, cover crops, cash crops. We operate a seed business. Then we do a little bit of consulting on the side.
Noah Newman:
So you do a little bit of everything. You probably don't have a lot of free time. What cash crops do you grow?
Nick Vos:
We still got quite a bit of corn. This year's probably the least amount of corn that we're going to grow. We're doing a lot more milo since the milo is a better fit for us for the sheep over the winter. It gives us some stockpile ability. We grow some soybeans. We got some wheat. We'll have some cowpeas this year. We'll have some barley this winter. So we constantly change and keep our rotations going and go wherever the market is. We'd, like to as much as possible, be a price maker instead of a price taker, so we try and grow things where we control the market.
Noah Newman:
I want to talk about your background a little bit. You have a really interesting story. You came from South Africa. Just tell us about your background growing up on a farm and how that shaped your attitude towards adopting conservation practices.
Nick Vos:
Well, grew up on a vegetable farm. That's kind of what got me thinking otherwise when I got here is just the whole spoon-feeding concept that you are accustomed to with vegetable farming. So when I got here, it didn't make sense to me to put all your eggs in a basket with the fertilizer program. Started reading up on that and trying to figure out why guys do what they do. Every area is different geographically and trying to get the why behind the whole story. That got us into more of the cover crops. We started with that about 12 years ago. Every time you go down a deep end, it seems like it's slipperier, and then you go way deeper than you think. But it's been a pretty good journey so far. We've enjoyed what we've learned, and we're really happy we've gone that way.
Noah Newman:
Now where you're located, the Dust Bowl as you put it, in Kansas, what kind of role do cover crops play in helping you overcome the moisture challenges you face?
Nick Vos:
Well, that's a big question. Where we are, you constantly fight moisture deficiencies, and a lot of guys are very anti-cover crop over here because of that. But I think more and more guys... When I started putting in wheat between corn and the next corn crop or wheat between soybeans and the next corn crop or between corn and soybeans, a lot of guys gave me a lot of... I wouldn't say feedback, but they were not really agreeing with the methods.
Nick Vos:
Looking back today, there's thousands of acres of rye and wheat as a cover here just keeping the ground from blowing over the winter. Even though a lot of that's un-irrigated, we see more and more of that on the dry land, too, because guys are realizing that it takes moisture to grow cover, and eventually that cover converts back to moisture because you don't lose it. You don't evaporate it. You translocate it back into the soil through the roots, and roots are 90% water. So you find ways to make it work. It's not easy. Last fall, our last rain was on August. So all the cover crops we drilled only sprouted here in March. So it does bite you in the butt sometimes. But I would say long term, the principles of soil health apply even in our desert area here. It's a little more tweaking, and it takes a little more challenges. You got to be opportunistic about what you do and not try and go with the calendar. But it's definitely paid off.
Noah Newman:
Well, let's talk about what species you use. Just give us the rundown. I guess, let's start in the fall. In the fall, what's your approach to using cover crops? What are you using, and how are you using them?
Nick Vos:
Well, if we're going to go from corn to soybeans, we try and stay more of a biomass program to try and get as much nitrogen out of the soil as possible ahead of beans, which is mostly cereals and brassicas. We won't include legumes then. If we go corn to corn, I'd like to be heavy nitrogen-based and very low carbon-based. So if we're in a continuous corn program, I might have 10 pounds of rye in the mix, but I will have probably 10 pounds of legumes and brassicas in the mix because I'm trying to convert and cycle as much of that carbon back into nitrogen. With that ratio and to get the stalks [inaudible 00:06:21], you need a big nitrogen mix. So we're very heavy brassicas, legumes, lots of hairy vetch, lots of common vetch, lots of clovers, lots of winter peas that we try and incorporate on continuous corn. Any moisture that you do get through the winter, you will cycle those corn stalks, and come spring, you will have a really good seed bed and quite a bit of nitrogen that's not only fixated but cycled through the corn stalks.
Noah Newman:
Then so spring rolls around and then the summer months start coming up. What's your approach look like there? What species are you seeding, and what's your approach?
Nick Vos:
We go to the spring, like milo stocks, you got a choice of putting a cover in. If the guys run really late, milo usually goes to wheat in a dry land rotation. So you have a choice of trying to get a light mix behind the milo. But a lot of times we only cut milo in November even sometimes in December. Then it gets a little late for that. Then you could go in with a light oat mix. I say light. Again, we're moisture dictated here, so we can't in with a 70, 80, 90-pound oats mix. We go 10 to 15 pounds of oats and maybe a couple pounds of legumes and brassicas. Then we like to terminate that around now. Sometime in June when it takes off, you want to terminate it and then try and accumulate as much moisture as you can back to be able to go back to wheat in October.
Noah Newman:
What equipment do you use to seed the covers?
Nick Vos:
We got a little CrustBuster. It's an all-plant. When I started it was about the most precision, down pressure machine we could afford. So that's what we went with, and I've been really happy with it. It's very low maintenance. It's pretty good put together. It's got a few weak points that we've figured out over the time. But all in all, I can't complain. Yeah, we do the mixes, and then we'll put it in the CrustBuster. It doesn't shake around a whole lot. Usually, it comes out pretty consistently.
Noah Newman:
You mentioned you have sheep on your property. How many do you have, and what role do covers play in your grazing operation?
Nick Vos:
So right now she's probably got... My wife runs the sheep side. I help her with forages and the planning for the forages, but the actual taking care of the shepherd side of it is all on her. Right now, ewes and lambs together, she's probably got close to 700. She runs about 400 ewes. Some of them are registered full blood that we run here at the house. Some of them are the commercial meat sheep, which we run down in Oklahoma on a forage-based system. Then the cover crops, really in the last two years, we've changed the way we farm more so to fit the sheep than the other way around. When we started into the sheep, we mostly wanted the sheep to do weed control and bindweed control and try and lessen our burden on chemicals. It's gone to the point now where we're starting to look at some areas where we're really chemical-free, and trying to get away from chemical, the sheep has kind of stepped up in being the primary source of income now, and we're almost changing our rotations to match the sheep.
Noah Newman:
What kind of species do you use for the sheep for cover...?
Nick Vos:
The sheep? It depends on the time of the year. Right now, we probably go in with a pretty good BMR sorghum mix, millets, sunn hemp and cowpeas, forage peas, chicory. I'm trying to think. We have some sunflower in there. We'll have some flax in there. We'll have some brassicas. Obviously, we've got some hybrid forages, some hybrids, hybrid turnip, some radish, usually around a 15 to 20 species mix. When we plant our second... This would be the spring crop that's now up and going. Then the second one which we usually plant in July, we try and not do the sorghums, and we replace the sorghums just with millets. The reason for that is when we do get a freeze in the fall, we don't have the [inaudible 00:10:46] issues that we fight, so we can keep grazing it and not have to pull off the mix for a couple weeks. The biggest change we make from March to August/September would be to replace the sorghums with the millets.
Noah Newman:
Take a quick time out. Back to the podcast in just a second. Once again, let's thank our sponsor, La Crosse Seed. Solving the soil health puzzle, La Crosse Seed has you covered. Cover crops are an important piece to future profit, but it takes work, and it's puzzling at times. La Crosse Seed delivers quality Soil First cover crop products, plus training and tools to help you succeed. Whether you're looking to grow your cover crop seed business, get product tips, or find a local Soil First dealer, La Crosse Seed is ready to help. Learn more at soil1st.com. That's soil1st.com or call 800-356-SEED. Now back to the podcast. In sports, they have the saying MVP, most valuable player. So I'm going to ask you this. What's your MBC, most valuable cover on your farm?
Nick Vos:
In the winter, I would say definitely triticale. In the spring, it would be oats. In the summer, it would be sunn hemp.
Noah Newman:
Then just kind of elaborating on that, what do you like most about those three? What benefits do you get from them?
Nick Vos:
The triticale is kind of in the middle between roots and forage. Rye obviously has the best root system, but the sheep really don't like the rye. They would go past luscious rye to go and graze struggling triticale almost. They just have a taste for triticale. So that's all primary winter cover. It establishes quicker than wheat. It grows faster than wheat. It's really been good for us. In the spring, there's nothing that beats oats. It's the quickest. It's the most aggressive. It's very palatable. Then in the summer, sunn hemp is probably... It's a legume, and it produces nitrogen. Not only that, it kind of grows like a [inaudible 00:12:51]. So when they graze it off, it sprouts and comes back almost... It makes multiple sprouts where they graze it off, and it just gets bushier and bushier. When you plant sunn hemp in April and May, you'll graze it all the way till it freezes out. It just doesn't have any end to it.
Noah Newman:
I wanted to ask you about when you first started using cover crops, what are some of the biggest lessons you say you've learned over the years with covers?
Nick Vos:
Oh boy, we've learned a lot. You don't learn things from what you do right, but you learn from what you do wrong. When you live where I live, where sometimes it's like, what was it, a couple weeks ago, we were 103 degrees and 57 mile wind and 6% humidity. When you have days like that, boy, there's nothing that wants to grow, and no one wants to be here. No one wants to live here, and the sheep don't want to be here. So there's some tough times here.
Nick Vos:
But I would say lessons learned is the biggest thing for us is opportunity. If you can get moisture... The last couple nights, we've had some really good rains, and every open acre I have is going to go to some kind of forage. There's just no doubt. So it's got to be opportunistic, which is why I get crosswise with some of the EQIP programs and why I'm not part of an EQIP program because they tie you to a calendar. Sometimes you can be as dry as the bone, but you got to have stuff sown because you got to be sown before the 15th of this date or the 20th of that day or whatever, and that just doesn't work down here. If you want to be in a program, they got to be more flexible and give you a bigger time spread because sometimes it just doesn't rain, and it doesn't rain for six or eight months. This absolutely makes no sense to get a cover in the ground if you have no moisture. It's a waste of time, waste of energy. Frankly, it hits the ground blowing if you get a wind event.
Noah Newman:
You mentioned when you first started, there were a lot of people in your region, and probably still are, that are skeptical about using cover crops. But have you noticed more farmers in your neck of the woods jumping on board with covers?
Nick Vos:
I would say every year we'll gain... I don't know of too many people that have done cover crops that have stopped. It's actually the other way around. Everyone starts with a little bit and then do a little more. It takes time to figure out. That's why I started the consulting side because there's a lot of guys that wanted to do something, but they really don't have the help. They don't need the expertise. A lot of the government agencies and extensions is not helping. As a matter of fact, they're very detrimental to how we start because they do studies, and the studies are monoculture studies, and then they tell us this doesn't work. It's a multi-year project. Sometimes you only start seeing benefits after year three or four or five. So when you do a three-year study, you're not really seeing any benefits sometimes.
Nick Vos:
I would say definitely it's on the rise. It's growing as a forage base. A lot of people are doing a cheaper mix to get their feet wet and then really liking. It's almost a system itself. When, when you see the soil texture and the moisture sometimes where you have the covers versus the bare soil, any guy that's hands-on is a really easy sell for the system because they can see the difference pretty quickly.
Noah Newman:
If there's someone listening who's thinking about starting to plant covers, or get into the practice, what would be some advice you would give them?
Nick Vos:
Start small. I would get some information from guys that are doing it. Again, I'm not anti-extension, but they've not been our friends and trying to promote covers and trying to get covers started. I'm talking specifically in my area. Even some of the NRCS offices, the two that I work with are absolutely awesome, but you go a little bit outside my area and a lot of them are very anti-cover and very moisture dictated orientated people.
Nick Vos:
I would say start small. Get in touch with people that are already doing it that have made the mindset change because it's not an operational change. It's a mindset change. Once you change your mindset, you're pretty open to trying some things on some small scale. Once you get things figured out on a small scale, you can try and implement it. That's where a lot of guys get hurt because a lot of these EQIP programs want you to do a lot of acres, and really then guys start seeing yield drag because they've got too much biomass out there. They plant it too much, too thick, the wrong species. So there's a lot to learn. But I would say start by learning from people that's already doing it.
Noah Newman:
I also wanted to ask you, have you done anything with interseeding?
Nick Vos:
We have. We have not been very successful because of... Like the cash crops that we do, we have to spray some herbicides down. When you do the herbicide program, it's tough to get something established within those parameters. We've flown on some interseeding. We started, I think, in 2015. We did five years in a row, and I think we had two great years, one average year, and two complete failures. So it's a hit and miss with flying it on, drilling it. We were fighting the herbicides problem.
Nick Vos:
We are probably going to try and do a cowpea/milo split row applications maybe even this year. Again, back to the sheep. The milo stocks is really good and gives us a good wheat to stockpile, but it's a very high carbon system. We got to be able to have a lot of protein out there and a lot of molasses and a lot of help to get them to digest the milo stocks. We're thinking, if we can add the cowpeas in between the rows with the milo or even just drill it in the same tank mix and drill it together, we're thinking that after we harvested the milo, we should have a really less high carbon, more high nitrogen type crop of cowpeas which is also very palatable and very nutritious. That's probably something we're going to try this year in the next two or three weeks.
Noah Newman:
Well, one of the trends we notice in our... We do a cover crop benchmark study, and we're in the third year of it. One of the trends is more and more growers are planting green. Is that something you do with your operation?
Nick Vos:
Yeah, we've planted green. Oh, this is either the fifth or the sixth year that we plant green. We've planted into triticale. We've planted into rye. We've planted into wheat. When I say triticale, it's always a mix. We try and put winter peas and [inaudible 00:20:04] right in with it. Radish don't seem to make the winter, but the rye always seems to make the winter here by us. Then we've had some clover, some crimson clover, the winter peas. Those are all kind of hit and miss. Some years we get them; some years we don't. But we originally try and get us a multi-species mix in in the fall. Yeah, we've green planted with really, really good results for five or six years now.
Noah Newman:
Do you terminate right after you plant?
Nick Vos:
We terminate the same day.
Noah Newman:
Same day. Okay, got you. All right, Nick. Well, I think that's all I have for you. Anything else you'd like to share with our listeners before we let you go?
Nick Vos:
Just guys need to be open minded. That whole doing the same thing over and over and doing it the way it's always been done is really boring. I think the one thing that cover crop guys, I think, share is the enjoyment. You just seem to enjoy things more again that seems to get kind of boring. It's the challenges of making it work and the challenges of experimenting with it, I think, is really good. It gets guys to change their mindset a little bit and seem happier. I've talked to a lot of guys that do what I do, and everyone's always excited about doing things the next year, excited about trying this this year. It seems like every year there's the next step and doing something. So I would tell guys to definitely just try it. Try small, be open minded about it, and kind of forget... We always tell people to unlearn and relearn, but that's really the case.
Noah Newman:
Great stuff there from Nick. Really want to thank him for joining us on this week's podcast. Before we go, though, let's thank our sponsor, La Crosse Seed, one more time. Solving the soil health puzzle, La Crosse Seed has you covered. Cover crops are an important piece to future profit, but it takes work, and it's puzzling sometimes. La Crosse Seed delivers quality Soil First cover crop products, plus training and tools to help you succeed. Whether you're looking to grow your cover crop seed business, get product tips, or find a local Soil First dealer, La Crosse Seed is ready to help. Learn more at soil1st.com. That's soil1st.com or call 800-356-SEED. All right, that's going to do for this week's podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Hope you enjoyed it. Until next time, for all things cover crops, head to covercropstrategies.com.
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