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Tom Burlingham no-tills right across the road from his childhood home in southern Wisconsin. He’s also been cover cropping for 15 years, and recently made what he calls an eye-opening discovery about one crop in particular.
For this episode of the Cover Crop Strategies podcast, sponsored by La Crosse Seed, contributing editor Martha Mintz talks with Tom about that discovery, and the overall impact cover crops are having on his farm.
He tells us what’s working, and what key adjustments to make when something’s not. Plus – Tom shares his no-till origin story which began in 1982, and reveals how after 40 years, he’s still finding a unique way to get some use out of old tillage equipment.
The Cover Crop Strategies podcast series is brought to you by La Crosse Seed.
Solving the SOIL HEALTH Puzzle? La Crosse Seed Has You Covered.
La Crosse Seed has put together a leading conservation seed platform by offering respected cover crop and native seed brands, plus practical support along the way. Quality products, helpful tools and expert advice make La Crosse Seed a strong partner with the pieces you need to succeed in this growing market. Dealers: Learn more at soil1st.com, or call 800.356.SEED.
Full Transcript
Noah Newman:
Welcome to the Cover Crop Strategies podcast. I'm Noah Newman, associate editor. Solving the soil health puzzle? La Crosse Seed has you covered. Cover crops are an important piece to future profit, but it takes work, and it's puzzling at times.
Noah Newman:
La Crosse Seed delivers quality Soil First® cover crop products, plus training and tools to help you succeed. Whether you're looking to grow your cover crop seed business, get product tips, or find a local Soil First® dealer, La Crosse Seed is ready to help. Learn more at soil1st.com or call 800-356-SEED.
Noah Newman:
All right. Let's talk about Tom Burlingham. He no-tills right across the road from his childhood home in Southern Wisconsin. He's also been cover-cropping for 15 years and recently made what he calls an eye-opening discovery about one crop in particular. On this episode of the Cover Crop Strategies Podcast, contributing editor, Martha Mintz, talks with Tom about that discovery and the overall impact cover crops are having on his farm. He tells us what's working and what key adjustments to make when something's not. Plus, Tom shares his no-till origin story, which began in 1982, and reveals how after 40 years, he still finding a unique way to get some use out of that old tillage equipment.
Martha Mintz:
All right, everyone. Today, we have with us Tom Burlingham. Tom has been no-tilling since 1982 and cover-cropping for a solidly impressive 15 years in Southern Wisconsin. Tom, how are you today?
Tom Burlingham:
Good.
Martha Mintz:
Good, good. Tom, why don't you start off by telling me a little bit about what the land is like where you farm? What kind of challenges are you facing?
Tom Burlingham:
Well, we have basically two parts of the farm. One is very hilly, light soil. It's a pure sandy loam, and it's got rocks on it. We initially started no-tilling in 1982 so we wouldn't have to pick the rocks. At that time, we didn't know that you could plant a crop without any runaway, and still have residue on the soil, and plant a crop, and be successful. So we kind of figured out, yeah, you can have residue covering the soil and still get a crop. That's the first question we had to answer back in those days.
Martha Mintz:
What were you growing back then?
Tom Burlingham:
Well, we were dairy farmers here in Wisconsin, milking 60 cows. We had a rotation of corn and alfalfa. We pastured here. We were kind of grazing in the summertime too, so we had a lot of pastures. Then as time went on, we converted all of our farm to no-till coming out of alfalfa hay. So we were able to no-till corn into it. Eventually, the cows went down the road, and we started growing sweetcorn. Then we eventually moved into more soybeans and wheat into our rotation. It was real easy to transition every field right out of hay going to corn. That's a match made in heaven.
Martha Mintz:
Yeah, I was curious about that because alfalfa is kind of one of those things where the ground takes a beating if you go over it a lot, but it's also a perennial crop. So how was that to no-till into?
Tom Burlingham:
Very easy. We were surprised that it worked so easy. The field's already smooth, and back in those days, we would kill the hay stand in fall, and so we had this brown out there in spring that we just no-tilled into it. All you had to get was get the seed slot closed, and you were good to go. All that was at that time was a John Deere 7000 planter with a rippled coulter out front making the seed slot. We just tightened down the press wheels in the back to close the seed slot. It worked pretty good.
Tom Burlingham:
We were told, "Geez, you can make it work on the lighter ground, but you'll never be able to no-till the ground." So we kind of proved that notion wrong too over the years because we just kept going. Our farm kind of lays east or left, and as you go towards the left, the soil gets better. We've got some pretty good full loam soil. We were able to no-till into that too.
Martha Mintz:
Well, I-
Tom Burlingham:
In that timeframe, we had corn in some of our better soils, and we would take you, do a little yield comparison. No-till half the field and work out half the field. After about three years of getting the same yield, I'm like, "What am I doing out here?" That is why we transitioned no-till on the better soil too.
Martha Mintz:
So you said that you planted brown into that alfalfa, but I hear you're not plating into much ground these days. Why don't you tell me a little bit about how-
Tom Burlingham:
Well, you hear all about how you got to keep a little root in the soil all the time, so we've been planting the corn and then killing the alfalfa in spring after planting. We get pretty aggressive with the herbicide doing that because we know that you got to have that alfalfa dead. You don't want any little alfalfa [inaudible 00:05:28] next time you come around with the alfalfa crop.
Martha Mintz:
But not so much the case when you top cover-crop. Tell me a little bit about how you got into cover-cropping and how that has changed your rotation to what it is today.
Tom Burlingham:
Well, I've gone to every seminar, and conference, and field day over the years and got a lot of money invested in that. So I was listening to people, like Steve Groff and Dave Brandt years ago at the No-Till Conference on how they were having success with these cover crops, and I'm like, "Well, let's try it out," because I think, yeah, I'm just one of those people that tries stuff. I'm like, "Well, let's try this."
Tom Burlingham:
Of course, we were skeptical at the time, but we started up on growing just oats after our wheat crop that we were not going to seed back into hay. Most of it that comes out of wheat goes back into alfalfa if they're planted late July timeframe. So we grow the oats, and they die over the winter. Well, gee, now, you got to try annual ryegrass. So we were planting annual ryegrass, radish, and crimson clover. That worked for several years.
Tom Burlingham:
After that, we went to a multi-species cover, and we got that down, and I think it's pretty good. We're getting real good corn yields following that. It's mostly medium red clover, sorghum-Sudan grass, and a lot of other cool-season broadleafs in there.
Martha Mintz:
You say you dialed in on that. Did you do some experiment or-
Tom Burlingham:
Well, I just-
Martha Mintz:
... how did you dial in on that?
Tom Burlingham:
I just like the way it breaks down, and I like the way it looks. We've got everything in bed you're supposed to have up there. We got stuff growing low in the canopy, like the clover, and high in the canopy, like some sunflower and safflower. We've got warm season and cool seasons of grass and broadleafs. It just seems to work really good. You've got your field peas, cowpeas, hairy vetch, lentils. Got rape, and some radish, and flax, and all kinds of stuff out there, and mustard, and-
Martha Mintz:
Did you ever have anything that you thought really wasn't working or anything that you could pick out that you're like, "Wow, I really like what this particular part of that mix does," or is it just kind of a broad, overall, it all works well together thing?
Tom Burlingham:
It seems to work well together. Don't go wild on the hairy vetch, just a couple of pounds. And five, six pounds of clover works really good. We try to keep the cost of that mix under $25. Now, we're probably going to go above it this year just because everything has gone up in price.
Tom Burlingham:
In 2011, '12, and '13, we hired an airplane to fly on our cover crops. When it comes to the corn, we put purely a rye on, and we'd been drilling it, but I thought, "Let's try to fly on three years in a row." We did that, and we were disappointed with the results. The results were just inconsistent. One year, it seemed like anything with a north-facing slope didn't even grow.
Tom Burlingham:
Of course, 2012, it was so dry, we didn't get a very good catch. In 2013, we had slugs eat quite a bit of it because we were too stupid. We didn't know slugs would eat it. So we learned that. If you're flying stuff on or broadcasting, make sure there's no slugs out there. The slugs are pretty easy to [inaudible 00:08:59] for us.
Martha Mintz:
They don't bother it so much if you drill it?
Tom Burlingham:
No, they don't because what happened was the slug was eating where it germinated, those little green... It couldn't ever root down because the slugs just ate it as soon as it turned green. I mean there was nothing. We had 90-acre field, and I could not find one spear of rye.
Martha Mintz:
So I would assume you don't do a lot of broadcasting anymore. Tell me how you-
Tom Burlingham:
Well, actually, our pendulum has swung back the other way, and I do have a 30-acre field of muck soil that we have been broadcasting. I've done that the last two years. Just I got a fertilizer spread, and we've been putting about 80 pounds out there just to see what would happen. Just to see if maybe that soil type being high in organic matter, we might get a chance for this stuff to root down.
Tom Burlingham:
What I did last year is I did most of the field broadcast, but then I ran, oh, maybe four or five acres with the drill just to... We're just going to find out this spring if we've got more growth and how thick it is. Just a little comparison to see what the difference is.
Martha Mintz:
What kind of soil did you say that was?
Tom Burlingham:
That was a muck soil.
Martha Mintz:
So a kind of dense, high soil?
Tom Burlingham:
Yeah, yeah, high organic matter. It's, I don't know, 20% organic matter probably. It's called... Adrian muck is the soil type.
Martha Mintz:
Okay, interesting. Muck is what I associate with [inaudible 00:10:25]-
Tom Burlingham:
No.
Martha Mintz:
... which would definitely have high organic matter as well. So kind of walk me through a year of your rotation. You talked a little bit about how you've established things, but tell me when you're establishing cover crops, how you're establishing cover crops, and then when do you terminate them?
Tom Burlingham:
Well, most of our ground has got a corn, soybean, what rotation with two covers. We do pick off the field table and say, "Hey, we're going to seed this one to hay this year." It's all seeded with [inaudible 00:10:58] seed. How much hay do we want to make, and where, and all those sorts of things, and that all has a little bit of bearing on it.
Tom Burlingham:
One thing I wanted to point out about this alfalfa. Back in the day when we had more acres of alfalfa, we would have a seven-year rotation. We would have corn, soybeans, and wheat, and then we would plant the alfalfa. The alfalfa would be in there for four or five years. We had the seven, eight-year rotation.
Tom Burlingham:
What we've come to find out is that if we're going six years or nine years in this rotation, so the corn, soybean, wheat two times or three times, the alfalfa will yield much better if it's been out of alfalfa for six or nine years compared to three, so-
Martha Mintz:
Really? Interesting.
Tom Burlingham:
Yeah, that was a real eye-opener for me. My crop consultant said, "Yes." He said, "The longer you've got it out of alfalfa, the better it will yield when you put it back into alfalfa." That was very much an eye-opener, so-
Martha Mintz:
Did he have any idea of why that would be?
Tom Burlingham:
Well, we don't know why. It's just one of those things. We're going to sit back and just have it out of hay for six years or nine years now, so because we-
Martha Mintz:
How much did it yield better?
Tom Burlingham:
Oh, gosh. 10%, 15%, I would say, at least.
Martha Mintz:
That's significant.
Tom Burlingham:
Yeah, it was. We were just thrilled. I was surprised. Okay. Now, we got fields coming up this year that have been out of hay for six years, so now I'm going back in. I try to keep our hay on the high ground. Catches the wind a little better. Maybe dries a little better. I'm a dry hay guy. We're not one of these people making this haylage or baleage, but we do on occasion make bales.
Tom Burlingham:
So you plant the corn after. Then after the corn comes off, we plant cereal rye. We got a 15-foot John Deere No-Till Drill. We run at a slight angle for the cornstalks. That does a great job of processing those stalks, chops them up a little bit. Then it comes into spring, and the first thing we'll do is we'll put some broadleaf residual on there. Come back a few days later, and we'll plant the beans.
Tom Burlingham:
Then we wait until the beans are about two, three-leaf stage when the rye is, oh, knee-high to waist-high, somewhere in there. There'll be 5,000 pounds of biomass out there per acre, something like that. Then we'll kill the rye. That works pretty good. Now, it's a dry year, and you can foresee that you don't have enough moisture, well, then we'll kill the rye earlier. We'll kill shortly after planting.
Noah Newman:
We'll get back to the podcast in a moment, but I want to take some time once again to thank our sponsor. Solving the soil health puzzle? La Crosse Seed has you covered. Cover crops are an important piece to future profit, but it takes work, and it's puzzling at times.
Noah Newman:
La Crosse Seed delivers quality Soil First® cover crop products, plus training and tools to help you succeed. Whether you're looking to grow your cover crop seed business, get product tips, or find a local Soil First® dealer, La Crosse Seed is ready to help. Learn more at soil1st.com or call 800-356-SEED. Now, back to the podcast.
Martha Mintz:
Do you also apply some chicken litter?
Tom Burlingham:
We'll get to that.
Martha Mintz:
Fine. Sorry. Jump in again here.
Tom Burlingham:
Yeah. Then what we'll have right is... I mean the day the beans come off, we're right out there planting wheat. Got to get that in right away because we got a short season here. So we want to get that what planted somewhere in the 5th to 10 of October timeframe, somewhere in there. We follow the Stonehaven Book of Wheat-Growing, and we try and get pretty good wheat yields. As soon as that wheat comes off, I fill the drill the weekend after the 4th of July, so we are ready to go with that next cover. As soon as that last bale of straw is coming off those fields, we are out there drilling our cover, and-
Martha Mintz:
And this is mucks?
Tom Burlingham:
Yes. That's anywhere from 12 to 15 species, whatever I got around here. Then we get the neighbor to put this... It's a dried cake type chicken manure, some layer manure. We'll put one pound of that on. Well, actually, last year, we put two pound on. The price of fertilizer was going up, so I'm like, "Yeah, let's put two pound on." That's when we get our manure into the rotation is when that cover crop has germinated and it's growing, oh, mid-August, somewhere around there. Don't worry about those trucks out there, driving around on this cover crop. It seems to grow anyway. A month away in the middle of September, you'll never know you were out there with trucks because it's so... yeah.
Martha Mintz:
So because you're no-tilling and can't incorporate it, is that cover crop a critical part of being able to use the chicken litter, or is that not right?
Tom Burlingham:
No, I think it works in harmony. I think you're pulling all the... not all of it, but a percentage of it into the biomass that's created with that mix cover. I mean we get Sudan grass. Shoot, that stuff'll be five, six, seven feet tall. So there's easily 6,000, 7,000 pounds of biomass out there.
Martha Mintz:
Now, is that the next spring or is that fall that it's that big?
Tom Burlingham:
That fall. One year, I did sell some to a neighbor who wanted it to feed his beef cows. And so I sold a few acres. Yeah, it ran three times the acre of dry matter. So, yeah, it's a thousand pounds out there.
Martha Mintz:
Yeah, I was curious. As a hay guy, is there the temptation to harvest that and provide, like you did in that case, more the full range-
Tom Burlingham:
Well, there is. There is. There's balance there too. We all know what the pricing influence did in the last year here, and potassium is critical on this stuff. I still don't know how some of these guys can cut that fertilizer back because I've done it. About 20 years ago, I quit putting fertilizer on, and there was nothing there. Two years later, there was no hay there. So I don't know how they do that. I'm not the one to talk to about cutting fertilizer. It is the fuel that runs the engine to grow alfalfa hay. I don't know how to get around without it.
Martha Mintz:
So are you getting some of the potassium from the cover crop? I guess I was curious if you were going to harvest the cover crop itself for hay, but are you saying that you need it? The nutrients is-
Tom Burlingham:
Well, if you harvest it, you have to replace that with the potassium. That's with the [crosstalk 00:18:09].
Martha Mintz:
I understand.
Tom Burlingham:
Yeah.
Martha Mintz:
Okay.
Tom Burlingham:
Yeah, I mean and if we're going to alfalfa, well, when that wheat crop comes off, boom. We go out there and plant alfalfa right away. You got a drill set up with... got all these attachments on it to... I mean it's got a narrow press wheels and narrow gauge wheels. We're down to about 13 pounds of alfalfa, and we're getting full sand. So that's pretty good savings if you're drilling this shit.
Tom Burlingham:
Then you go out there, and we use generic select control to balance your wheat that grows up, and careful about making sure that all that chap coming out of the combine is uniform across the field. We don't want these windows of balancer wheats screwing up our alfalfa seeds or to miss cover planting.
Martha Mintz:
Now, you talked about how lengthening your rotation helped your alfalfa yield. What have you seen as far as what cover crops do for your cash crop?
Tom Burlingham:
On some of these lighter soils, we like to have that residue out there so we don't get the transpiration and the soil drying out. That helps. Also, we're creating a little nitrogen with the corn, and we're planting, and you get five, six pounds of medium red clover that's knee-high in spring that you're planting, you see.
Tom Burlingham:
We're getting that to break down. We don't have to worry about any late-season nitrogen, like Y-DROPs or anything like that. We're getting that from the cover crop breaking down. It's pretty good standard clover, and it's not just the biomass on top, but we're getting those roots to break down that clover, and that's feeding that corn.
Tom Burlingham:
We're not getting enough out of our micros breaking down covers. I've seen people... I shouldn't be critical, but I guess I want to get the most possible out of a cover crop, and that's one of them right there. The other one is creating a lot of biomass with the rye with the soybeans, when you've got soybeans growing in there.
Tom Burlingham:
Cover crops are all about utilizing extra sunlight and extra water. So if you've got extra water in May for that rye to grow the first couple of weeks in May there, shoot, let it grow. You know what I mean? You're only talking an extra 10, 12 days to grow that stuff from a foot high to two and a half, almost three inches high, so-
Martha Mintz:
It is an impressive plant.
Tom Burlingham:
Yes, but we can control that. We can say, "Okay. On off-season when all this rain's in forecast, look at this. We're going to let this go, and we're going to let it grow." Okay. Well, if it doesn't rain, and it was supposed to, well, you can still go out and kill. You can control all of that. Our toolbox is full. We're not organic producers. I don't have rules to follow here. We try to go with what we know and try to trust the little signs along the way.
Tom Burlingham:
Our crop consultant is fully gifted when it comes to the land-grant university recommendations, and he comes right in the front door of the shop every week in the summertime, so we got all that. Then we got other information. I read books, and try to figure this out on our own, and see what works and what doesn't. I got a long list of things that doesn't work.
Martha Mintz:
Do you also feed your corn green, like you do your soybeans?
Tom Burlingham:
Yes. Yeah, but we get real aggressive in hitting really that grass. We don't want that balancer wheat to interfere. The trick here is... Now, what we like to do is have the corn come up and burn that medium red clover back, and have that come back in the corn. What'll happen is that stuff'll drain you out. When that corn's about waist-high, you got this nice mat of clover underneath it. Surprisingly, that stuff once you cut the light off under there in that canopy, that stuff dies in August. That's what we're trying to do is just burn it back, get herbicide into it, and then have it come back. Then you don't have to interseed anything.
Tom Burlingham:
Well, I'm down to one field we're interseeding because it's that 30 acres of muck ground. So we grow two years of corn and one year of soybean. Yeah, when it's corn on corn, then I interseed it, and we'll use a mix with my... it's a conventional 3-point hitch till. That's our interseeder. We took some units off that. I think there were 24 units on it, now 17. It's just a little six-row deal. We're planting any grass imaginable, and they all die, but the broadleafs seem to live. The clover, and the flax, and the rape, and the cowpea, those-
Martha Mintz:
Underneath that canopy?
Tom Burlingham:
Yes. I don't know why. I don't know if it's because the leaf surface is larger or how it's put together, but it just seems whatever grass I try... Name one, and I've used it. They all seem to want to die in late August when the light gets cut off. They look great a month after you plant it, whether it's annual ryegrass, perennial ryegrass, fescue, oleander, or rye or oats or whatever. I think maybe I'm just going to go with oats because it's cheap, and it's going to die anyway.
Tom Burlingham:
We've never had it over winter. This is why is you give the corn, this eight, 10-foot crop, a four-week headstart. So we're out there B3 planting the stuff, and it gets no light from about the 1st of August to the 1st of October. Then you run the combine over it, and it covers it all with residue. Come spring, you go, "Oh, geez. I wonder why this died." Well... right? That's what you're up against. The broadleaf will... They live will.
Martha Mintz:
Well, that's interesting though because you said the clover that's fully established will die in August in the corn, but then you have success interseeding clover.
Tom Burlingham:
Yeah, yeah. Isn't that something? I don't know. It just kind of-
Martha Mintz:
But-
Tom Burlingham:
Just kind of runs out of gas. Some of it'll make it, so okay. That's all right.
Martha Mintz:
Yeah. Anything else on cover crops and how they've impacted your farm or changed how-
Tom Burlingham:
Well, the number one is erosion control. I mean we got the right soil, very, very steep, and we couldn't hold it. You just couldn't hold them when you get these heavy spring rain. We'd get some washout. Even though it was no-till, long-term no-till, once we got the cover crops going, hey, that's working pretty good. We were able to take out a couple of the shallow waterways because we were holding that soil with the cover crops.
Martha Mintz:
Were you then able to crop more acres?
Tom Burlingham:
Oh, yeah. A little bit, I would say. Not too many of them, but then we got cocky about 10 years ago. Well, we can take all these waterways out. Well, now, that didn't work. We had to put them back them, but-
Martha Mintz:
Water is fundamental, of course.
Tom Burlingham:
Right. We had a couple of major rain events in February when the ground was frozen. Well, when the water's running, it's fine. We weren't able to hold a couple areas, so we had to fix them up and put the waterways back, which, okay, fine.
Martha Mintz:
Okay. So-
Tom Burlingham:
If you got these covers, that ground's protected. When you have 6,000 pounds of biomass out there from a mixed cover, that soil's not going anywhere.
Martha Mintz:
Right. After all of your experimenting and success with cover crops, I understand that you tried camelina. How did that go, and why did you try that?
Tom Burlingham:
Well, we were looking, and we're still looking for a broadleaf companion to be planted with cereal rye into the cornstalk. Camelina's not the answer. It's not going to work. We're looking for a broadleaf that you could plant the first week of November here in Southern Wisconsin and have it live through the winter. Well, camelina's probably going to work so well for that.
Tom Burlingham:
We did grow an acre and a half, and I still got some runaway. I've been throwing it in with the rye that we've been broadcasting on this muck field. We're going to see if any of it grew here. The problem with camelina is the seed's the size of a [inaudible 00:27:16]. If you're planting, and using a quarter deep with the cereal rye, it's actually too deep for it. And the ground is cold. We've tried a lot of different broadleafs to try and grow with the cereal rye. Maybe I want something that's not out there.
Martha Mintz:
Have you tried winter canola?
Tom Burlingham:
No, we have not tried that.
Martha Mintz:
Well, that might be one to look into next. I know they're playing with it out here in Montana where I'm at a little bit with this stuff.
Tom Burlingham:
Okay. Well, that's pretty much rape, and, yes, I have tried planting rape out there, but maybe I got the wrong variety. I don't know. We'll see [crosstalk 00:27:57].
Martha Mintz:
Yeah. Well, they got some good stuff out there-
Tom Burlingham:
Okay.
Martha Mintz:
Well, now, I know you've been no-tilling for ages, but I hear that you still have some use for tillage equipment on your place. So before everybody gets up in arms, being no-tillers and strict tillers, I hear it involves a welder. What do you do with your old tillage equipment and the random metal you find around your farm?
Tom Burlingham:
Oh. Well, I've made some metal sculptures with it. That's its highest and best use. When we make a rut... We're not immune to making a rut once in a while. It happens, and we've got a disc, we'll fill that in with disc. I got a roller I made with the [inaudible 00:28:43], and I offset the rollers, kind of like a offset disc, and that seems to work pretty good to fill that stuff in without burying the residue. That's kind of the key. We'll put pylons in once in a while here and there, and you got to work those down with something to get them smooth again.
Martha Mintz:
Yeah. It's not the end of the world. Sometimes it has to be done. All right. Well, I think that about covers everything that I have. Is there anything else that you wanted to add or share with other folks who were interested in trying cover crops?
Tom Burlingham:
Well, you got to keep working at it. The Lord helps those who help themselves, and you're not going to figure it out in a day or two. It takes a while, and you just got to keep working at it. I can tell you with great confidence that there's benefits out there to be had.
Martha Mintz:
Do you have it all figured out yet?
Tom Burlingham:
No, absolutely not. We're all students here. We're all students of this game, and we're just trying to get better at what we're doing. We're trying to protect the water. We're trying to protect the environment, and it all works in harmony. Like I said, we're not surprised that it works, but I am really surprised at how well it works together.
Martha Mintz:
Does it take that full 16, 20, 30 years to get those effects?
Tom Burlingham:
No, I don't think so. I think you can see a difference in your own soil. Naturally, you're going to see it. You can see a difference in about three to four years. Here, you've got the stuff that's either [inaudible 00:30:13] stuff or [inaudible 00:30:14]. And once you cut off the tills and allow the soil to become soil again, it's just the worms come back. You can just take a shovel, and turn it over, and you can see the life in it, and see the aggregate. Yeah.
Martha Mintz:
Excellent. Well, Tom, thank-
Tom Burlingham:
Yeah.
Martha Mintz:
Thank you so much for your time today, and I look forward to seeing what your next experiments turn out like.
Tom Burlingham:
Sure. Sounds good.
Noah Newman:
Thanks to Wisconsin no-tiller, Tom Burlingham, and contributing editor, Martha Mintz, for that conversation about cover crop strategies. Once again, we'd like to thank our sponsor. Solving the soil health puzzle? La Crosse Seed has you covered. Cover crops are an important piece to future profit, but it takes work, and it's puzzling at times.
Noah Newman:
La Crosse Seed delivers quality Soil First® cover crop products, plus training and tools to help you succeed. Whether you're looking to grow your cover crop seed business, get product tips, or find a local Soil First® dealer, La Crosse Seed is ready to help. Learn more at soil1st.com or call 800-356-SEED.
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