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If you’ve spent any time at all researching cover crops online, you’ve probably come across the famous picture of Dave Brandt holding a gigantic tillage radish. Brandt laughs about the photo, but for this meme-worthy no-tiller from Carroll, Ohio, that massive taproot only hints at the amazing benefits he’s seen from the cover crops he’s been growing since 1976.
For this episode of the Cover Crop Strategies podcast, sponsored by La Crosse Seed, contributing editor Martha Mintz chats with Dave about some of those benefits as well as the lessons he’s learned in his 45 years of using cover crops. Dave talks about how and why he went from using a single species cover crop to a multi-species mix, some of the unusual methods he’s used for measuring nutrient payback from covers, how they’ve helped him reduce fertilizer inputs by 80%, herbicides by 45-50% and fuel by 10-15%, the equipment he uses to plant green into 36,000 pounds of cover crop biomass, and much more.
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Full Transcript
Julia Gerlach:
Welcome to the Cover Crop Strategies podcast. I'm Julia Gerlach, Executive Editor. Solving the soil health puzzle, La Crosse Seed has you covered. Cover crops are an important piece to future profit, but it takes work and is puzzling at times. La Crosse Seed delivers quality Soil First cover crop products, plus training, and tools to help you succeed. Whether you're looking to grow your cover crop seed business, get product tips, or find a local Soil First dealer, La Crosse Seed is ready to help. Learn more at soil1st.com. Or, call 800-356-SEED.
Julia Gerlach:
If you've spent any time at all researching cover crops online, you've probably come across the famous picture of Dave Brandt holding a gigantic tillage radish. Brandt laughs about this photo now. But for this meme-worthy no-tiller from Carroll, Ohio, that massive taproot only hints at the amazing benefits he's seen from the cover crops he's been growing since 1976.
Julia Gerlach:
For this episode of the Cover Crop Strategies podcast, Contributing Editor, Martha Mintz chats with Dave about some of those benefits, as well as the lessons he's learned in his 45 years of using cover crops. Dave talks about how and why he went from using a single species cover crop to a multi-species mix, some of the unusual methods he's used for measuring nutrient payback from covers, how they've helped him reduce fertilizer inputs by 80%, herbicides by 45 to 50%, and fuel by 10 to 15%, the equipment he uses to plant green into 36,000 piles of cover crop biomass, and much more.
Martha Mintz:
Today we have the awesome opportunity to speak with Carroll, Ohio farmer David Brandt. I'm sure exactly nobody will be surprised, David, to find you on a Cover Crop Strategies podcast. So, welcome.
David Brandt:
Thank you.
Martha Mintz:
Yeah. We're glad to have you. So, you've been no-tilling cover cropping regenerative farming for positively ages. But for those who have maybe not followed you as closely as some of us have, why don't you just in a nutshell give me a brief history of the different transformations you've moved through with your farming system over the years?
David Brandt:
Well, we started in 1969 with our first field of no-till. It no-tilled into a heavy bluegrass sod. The chemicals were pretty short. So, it was atrazine and 2-4-D at that time. It took another year or two for us to be 100%. So, in 1971, we were 100% no-till mainly because we didn't have the equipment or the time to do tillage. At that time, we were feeding 200 Charolais cows and calves, plus 200 sow spare to finish. And my wife and I, we were pretty busy with the livestock. So, we just didn't have time to do tillage.
David Brandt:
So, we had to make the no-till work. And we learned lots of lessons as we proceeded on. We always tried to have some kind of field day every year. So, we got to see some of the newest equipment that was manufactured from '71 till present day. And we was fortunate enough we got to run a lot of it and see a lot of it that didn't work, but a lot of it did. And helped a lot of manufacturers to improve what we have seen today. So, about any color today, you can no-till into cover crops, and get really good stands of corn, and soybeans, and small greens.
Martha Mintz:
And cover crops was a huge part of what you have done over the years. When did cover crops really come into your operation?
David Brandt:
We started in '76 with single species cover crops. We started with hairy vetch and winter peas. We used some rye. A lot of times we just used some wheat that we had leftover. And we found out that didn't work as well as the rye. So, after a couple years of learning some of the disasters with the wheat, we moved to rye. And for 10 years we used a single species because we didn't know any different. We didn't figure out you could put two or three plants together and they would survive.
David Brandt:
And then we began with Steve Groff in the late '90s, working with his tillage radish. And bought a White planter. It was an eight row 30 with seven splitters. So, we could alternate radishes and winter peas in a row after small grains. And we saw a quite good success. And that's how we really started with using multiple-species. And today, everything we plant after our small grains are either an eight or a 10-way species because we can improve the soil so much faster.
Martha Mintz:
Okay. So, maybe that would be a good time to why don't you give us an overview of what your farm looks like today? How many acres are you farming? What crops are you growing? Maybe walk us through a year of your rotation.
David Brandt:
Well, we operate around 1000 acres. It goes up and down yearly because we lose some to developments, or to houses, or house lots. I have 23 landlords. I have six of those that has less than five acres. And so, then that makes it interesting. But we grow corn. We have about 330 acres of corn. We have about 330 acres of soybeans. And about 334 acres of small grains, which consists of oats, wheat, rye, triticale, spelts. And that we sell to our seed company that we started. And the farm stands on its own, and we sell the seed to the seed company, and it stands on its own. So, we're trying to move cover crop seeds throughout Ohio and other places.
Martha Mintz:
Yeah. You guys have really diversified. Now, that's Walnut Creek Seeds. Is that correct?
David Brandt:
That's correct. Yes. Yes.
Martha Mintz:
Okay. So, now, where do you cover crop fit into your rotation with those crops?
David Brandt:
We'll just start off with the corn. We harvest the corn. We'll go in, in the fall with the drill. And so, rye, and radishes, and rapeseeds, just depending on what time of the year. If it's before October 1st, we use the radishes. If it's after October 1st, we switch to rapeseed because it tends to hang in there over the winter a lot better and works really nice. Then we go to soybeans, into the rye, rape cover crop. After the soybeans come off, we immediately go to a small grain. So, every year I know exactly what's going into those fields for the next season.
Martha Mintz:
And is that pretty important when you're looking at your cover crop mix is to understand what's going in next, or how it all works together?
David Brandt:
Yeah. It's really important to know that. I'm trying to teach farmers that want to use cover crops. We need to look forward at least five or six months to see what you want to do. We want to figure out what their goals are, such as maybe they want to reduce erosion, or maybe they want to reduce input costs. And we can accomplish that with both a multiple-species cover and accomplish both things. And really help them become more sustainable or more productive every year.
Martha Mintz:
So, when you're planting these species together, maybe go back to when you first mixed the tillage radish and the peas. What were you able to see with maybe just those two crops that proved to you that more is better than a monoculture?
David Brandt:
Well, what we saw was that some places that where the peas maybe got a little stressed or was a little too wet on the soils, we saw the radishes actually what I would say it helps the peas because the radish put a fine root out. It went over and actually went close to the winter peas to take some of that nitrogen that they capture from the atmosphere to make nodules. So, in turn, our radishes got bigger in diameter and deeper in the soil.
David Brandt:
And also, the winter pea got put on a lot more nitrogen nodules because the radish was taking it away. And I thought it just looked like they've done twice as much nodulation when they had the radish beside them. And we were able to plant them as you would plant corn. So, each radish seed was 4.5 inches apart. And every winter pea was two inches apart. And it just worked out really well to make a cheap cover crop that really covered ground, and give us a lot of biomass throughout the fall, and then it stayed there until spring.
Martha Mintz:
So, in order to see that, describing what happened with those roots, I'm assuming that you did some digging. And I assume you probably do a lot of digging on your farm every year, all year. How important is that to what you do? And do you spend a lot of time digging around in the dirt?
David Brandt:
We spend a tremendous amount of time digging in the soils because we want to see how well these plants are performing as far as root growth goes, whether the nitrogen-fixing plants we're using, or fixing nodulation, so we can evaluate them. And we just like to see how it's going to change the till. And the granular parts of the soil gets better. We lose compaction because a lot of the plants we're using now will go from three inches deep with fiber roots to taproots down to five to six foot deep in the soil over the summer growth of the cover crop planted after the small grain.
Martha Mintz:
So, are you the one digging those five to six foot deep holes?
David Brandt:
No. My wife said, "If it don't have a motor, I don't do it." So, we use a small backhoe and do that research. And the biggest thing that I said I probably did wrong was we had one radish that I found the first year we did it with Steve Groff. And it was five inches in diameter, 46 inches long tuber, with a four foot long taproot from that. So, I took it to the Soil and Water office. And for some reason, I let him take a picture of me. And now, I have to talk about it.
Martha Mintz:
Well, besides just digging and looking visually, have I heard correctly that you've done things like actually remove nodules from legume roots and weigh them? What are some interesting ways you've found to evaluate and measure how well or what your cover crops are doing for you?
David Brandt:
Well, when we really got involved in this, we started digging and washing the plants, looking to nodulation, trying to weigh those nodules off. We would separate them between what I would call a ballpoint pin size to the size of your thumbnail. And then we would go back monthly, and dig that plant, and see how those nodules were staying there.
David Brandt:
If we broke them open, they were bright red, which means they were real viable, full lot of nitrogen for next year's crop. And I felt the larger my nodules was in the fall, the longer it would take the soil microbes to break it down in the spring. So, we could actually feed our corn plant almost a whole year with the nodulation from our legume plants after our cereal crops were taken off.
Martha Mintz:
Have you been able to act on the amount of nitrogen that you're producing with your cover crops?
David Brandt:
Right now, most of our eight and 10-way mixes has at least four nitrogen-fixing plants with two to three carbon plants, or grass crops, grass plants. And according to soil samples that we've taken yearly, we're running between 160 pounds of available nitrogen to the next year's crop up to 200 pounds.
Martha Mintz:
And is that just a standard soil test that you're running? Or, how are you determining that?
David Brandt:
We're doing that through the Haney test. And now, it's going through to either award labs, or regen labs in Nebraska. And they do it a little different. They don't use a harsh chemical to accelerate that. They use a water-based process that actually acts like a rainfall event. And then they can tell exactly how much phosphorous, and nitrogen, and potash is in the soils that is available to the plant.
Martha Mintz:
Now, have you tested that out in your crops by reducing your applied nitrogen, or any applied fertilizers?
David Brandt:
Yes. The nicest thing, and what I try to get people to do as they use cover crops, and the hardest problem part is probably learning to reduce because we're so accustomed to putting X on to get X out, or Y to get Y out. So, we did it as maybe two or three passes in the field, we didn't have anything. Maybe two or three passes, we had half rates. Maybe a pass at a quarter rate. And then the balance of the field is like we normally do. We still have to have yield. We still have to be able to sell some crop.
Martha Mintz:
Right.
David Brandt:
And we was watching and comparing. And according to the yield monitor, where we had taken 60 or 70% of the nutrients away, the crop yielded the same as if we'd put it all on. And that's how we evaluate it. And each year we do that, just in case on one field, just to make sure we're still going down the same path.
Martha Mintz:
So, that's probably saved you a little bit of money. Or, how does that balance out between what you spend managing those cover crops, planting them, buying seed, compared to what you would spend on nitrogen?
David Brandt:
Well, with the use of the Haney test, and looking at it, and utilizing what he tells us, and then doing our own testing, we have reduced our fertilizer inputs by 80% and our herbicide inputs is down by about 45 to 50%. And that depends on the year, how well the spring is. If it's a good spring where stuff can grow, we can get by with a whole lot less. If it's a cold spring and stuff don't grow very well, it takes a little more nutrients, a little more chemical, to take care of those cover crops.
Martha Mintz:
Now, those are some pretty impressive statistics. If you were a baseball player, that would be a pretty prized card of statistics to go with. But some of the ones that I've seen that impress me even more because I know what people say about building soil, organic matter, and such, is just how far you've taken your soil. Tell me how your soil has changed, and the measurements behind evaluating how your soil has changed over the years?
David Brandt:
Yeah. When we bought the farm that we started this no-till on in 1971, we had almost 1% organic matter. It was all Cardington clay-based soils, which meant it was light yellow or light orange colored, fairly deep that way. So, as we began, we saw infiltration of water got better. We saw the surface turning darker. When they kicked off the soil health movement here, gee, that's been eight or 10 years ago, they were here and dug a soils pit. And said we had about 5% organic matter at that time.
Martha Mintz:
Wow.
David Brandt:
And today, we're pushing eight in the home farm.
Martha Mintz:
Wow.
David Brandt:
So, we feel really accomplished about being able to change it. Of course, it's been a 45 year, or 50 year challenge. But we went from one to eight. So, we're able to hold a lot more water. We can hold about eight inches of water an hour now. And we have a lot of organic nitrogen in the 8% organic matter that we have.
Martha Mintz:
Is that a bit of an insurance policy for you as a farmer?
David Brandt:
Yes. Yes.
Martha Mintz:
Because we look at supply chain is a huge issue right now. If you couldn't get any nitrogen, and if you couldn't get some of the things that many people feel as critical to their operation, where would you be sitting?
David Brandt:
Well, last year we did a variety plot with 20 different hybrids in a 10-way cover that had 36,000 pounds of green biomass that we planted into. And we did not put any nitrogen on it just to see how these hybrids would respond. And our highest yielding hybrids there were 180 to 192, and the lowest yielding varieties there were 83. So, some varieties responded well to the covers, and some didn't. And that's what we try to figure out as we look at new varieties and new ideas coming out from seed companies.
Julia Gerlach:
We'll get back to the podcast in a moment. But I want to take time once again, to thank our sponsor. Solving the soil health puzzle, La Crosse Seed has you covered. Cover crops are an important piece to future profit, but it takes work and is puzzling at times. La Crosse Seed delivers quality Soil First cover crop products, plus training, and tools to help you succeed. Whether you're looking to grow your cover crop seed business, get product tips, or find a local Soil First dealer, La Crosse Seed is ready to help. Learn more at soil1st.com. Or, call 800-356-SEED. And now, back to the podcast.
Martha Mintz:
Would you say that the varieties, are they taking into consideration performance with cover crops? Or, is that just up to you as a farmer to figure out what's going to work best on your farm based on the hybrids that they have?
David Brandt:
There is some work being done by the corn hybrid for these people. But most of it's done with just a single species cover that actually probably gets burned off when it's eight or 10 inches tall because they like plant brown. There's probably other people doing it too. But most of the farm research for varieties and large covers have to come from farmers that's using covers.
Martha Mintz:
So, you said that planting brown. Tell me how you are planting when you're going into a cover crop. Is it still green and growing? Or, what are your strategies that you use to terminate cover crops?
David Brandt:
Well, for corn, we like to see the species out there coming into bloom or close to full bloom, especially rye, the clovers, the hairy vetch, the more blooms we had on the vetch. We use an IMJ crop roller, which has I call it the track-and-cleat design. It actually crimps the cover crop every four inches. So, that actually helps to kill it. And we plant first, and then roll the crop afterwards.
David Brandt:
I think it just works a whole lot better. If for some reason, you're not getting a seed trench closed real well, the crop roller will actually lay that residue down in the seed trench. And we get close to 100% stands every year by using the crop roller after we plant. And if you can visualize, these cover crops will be somewhere between three to six foot tall that we're planting into.
Martha Mintz:
So, now, is that controlling it completely? Or, do you have to use a herbicide to finish killing that cover crop?
David Brandt:
We can usually omit the pre and the burn down about 90% of the time. And we may have to post 50% of the time.
Martha Mintz:
Okay.
David Brandt:
Just depends on how tall and how much thick the biomass is.
Martha Mintz:
So, when you're planting into those, you said that you've seen a lot of equipment come through your farm for tests over the years. So, what do you use now? What's your equipment set up that allows you to plant through that 36,000 pounds, did you say? [crosstalk 00:21:19]-
David Brandt:
Yes.
Martha Mintz:
... biomass in some cases.
David Brandt:
Yes. Right now, we're using a White 9800 planter. It consists of a fluted coulter on the front, two seed blades, gates wheels on the seed blades, and two rubber closing V-type press wheels on our planter. That's all we have on it. We have tried lots of row cleaners. And in our case, we have a lot of highly erodible ground. And if we move the residue on the side of our hills, it's six to eight percent slope, we get a lot of erosion. So, we just don't use them. I don't think we need them with the experience we've had with planting.
Martha Mintz:
So, when you plant through that, does the planter lay quite a bit of that cover crop down? Or, is it still pretty up and vigorously growing even after the planter goes through?
David Brandt:
I imagine the planter really about 40 or 50% of it down flat, especially where the rows are. Of course, you got about a seven or eight inch span there where the rows are. It does a nice job laying it down there. And then we just use the crop roller to where the spacing and where the wheels have run over them. So, it works really well. And the same thing with soybeans and the rye. I prefer the bigger the rye, the better I like it.
Martha Mintz:
Now, are you planting soybeans with a planter or are you drilling them?
David Brandt:
We're drilling them with a 30 foot Krause drill right now.
Martha Mintz:
Any special setup on that to go through what I'm sure is very robust rye?
David Brandt:
We have a leading edge solid coulter on the Krause drill, and a smooth disc following it. And a press wheel in the trench. And that is all that's on that planter.
Martha Mintz:
So, when you've laid down these huge amounts of residue, are you still battling residue from the year before when you go back to plant, I don't know, like the next season? Or, how long does that residue hang around?
David Brandt:
Well, we can shell 200 bushels of corn within a month. All we got is the stump and the ball where the roots are. We have so many earthworms and other critters that come. And we have trouble holding residue.
Martha Mintz:
Even though you're producing thousands upon thousands of pounds of it?
David Brandt:
Yes. Right. And the reason I think, we have quit using fungicides and insecticides. It's been 10 years since we've used any of that. And we dropped the treatments on the seeds five years ago. We are delaying planting about two to two-and-a-half weeks later than our neighbors do. We want our soils to be as warm as possible, in the 58 to 60 degree range. So, when we plant in three days, you can roll it, row the corn or beans. And really we can do that if we don't have any problem with insects or anything working on it because the corn is really rapidly growing. And normally, we'll pretty well catch up with the conventional corn that's been planted a month ahead of time.
Martha Mintz:
Is there also some benefit to having soil microorganisms, or even beneficial insects there to battle off any of the negative things that you would normally be handling with a seed treatment? Or, is that not the case?
David Brandt:
Oh, yeah. It's really great. I mean, if you think about the biological activity in our soils. We have done some studies with Jonathan Lundgren and a few other entomologists. And it's estimated on our farm that we have the weight of four cows and four calves as far as microbial activity in the soil. So, you can imagine how much activity we have and how well that protects the crop we're trying to grow.
Martha Mintz:
Is that per acre? Or, how are they measuring that?
David Brandt:
Per acre. Per acre.
Martha Mintz:
So, was that the case study you did with Understanding Ag?
David Brandt:
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Martha Mintz:
So, how did they go about measuring that? I mean, these are microscopic.
David Brandt:
We take samples, representative samples of the field. Send them to Jonathan or to another lab that can actually count the nematodes, and the bacteria, and the protozoa, and the beetles, and all the other big name things that I can't pronounce. And [crosstalk 00:25:36]-
Martha Mintz:
Counting nematodes. That sounds like a job for an intern.
David Brandt:
Yeah, right. We get a report back saying you got these many thousands, or hundreds of thousands things in your soils. And they estimate the weight from that.
Martha Mintz:
Yeah. Multiply it over the area.
David Brandt:
Yeah. Correct.
Martha Mintz:
So, obviously, on your farm, you've been doing this for so long, we expect great, amazing things. Have you seen these tests done on other farms with a couple of years between to see if there's any advancement?
David Brandt:
Oh, yeah. Yes.
Martha Mintz:
Tell me about that.
David Brandt:
Well, what we do when we have people, or when we pick up a new farm, if we pick up a farm that's been conventionally farmed, we like to get some cover crop in there such as a buckwheat. We know that buckwheat has a fibrous root system that goes four or five inches deep. And when you terminate buckwheat, it actually releases an enzyme from the roots that will help breakdown unavailable phosphorus, and make it available. So, we can add about 12 to 15 pounds of phosphorus to our soil samples by adding buckwheat.
David Brandt:
And with that fine root system on the surface, we have eliminated some of the surface compaction so we get a little bit more water infiltration. Then in the fall, after we take the corn crop off on a new farm, we'll probably put oats and flax because oats and flax are the best host for mycorrhiza. And since it's been tilled, there's very little mycorrhiza in the soil. So, we're trying to build that because the mycorrhiza is what actually the bacteria and the nematodes eat. And it gives off the nutrients that the corn, or beans, or the wheat plant needs to feed it.
Martha Mintz:
So, have you done those study where you have them count the soil microbes as a benchmark and then gone back and counted it later?
David Brandt:
Yes. We only do that on a very few farms because it's a $500 sample to get that accomplished.
Martha Mintz:
Right.
David Brandt:
It takes them a while. So, and all we're trying to say is we can improve the numbers. The numbers mean more to me, and the species, than anything else. So, if we pick one up, we'll try it. And then we'll try different cover crops to see how fast we can change the population under the soil surface.
Martha Mintz:
Oh, and that's what I was curious about is how quickly do you see the soil life responding to it being managed differently?
David Brandt:
Well, the first year, if we can get rye in after corn products, we'll see earthworms increase. We'll see some other things happening. Probably it'll go to beans, and then it'll go small grains. So, it would be two more years before we'd have a cover crop there in that field. And then we really see a change if we can get that eight or 10-way species cover crop with all the different roots and all the different characteristics of those roots do for us.
Martha Mintz:
So, I mentioned the Understanding Ag. Can you tell me a little bit more about what Understanding Ag is and how you're involved there?
David Brandt:
Understanding Ag was started through Soil Health Academy, which I, and Ray Archuleta, and Gabe Brown, and Dr. Allen Williams, started as a way to educate producers about changing to regenerative ag. So, we would hold schools monthly for about 30 or 40 attendees for a fee. Give them a three day course on how to get started, and what's going on.
David Brandt:
And then all of a sudden, we had lots of these schools and nobody had any help. So, Gabe, and Ray, and Dr. Williams, started Understanding Ag, which is a consulting concern that actually helps them take soil samples, helps them read their samples, make suggestions for mixes, and how to improve their soils. And basically, and incorporating the use of livestock to go along with that.
Martha Mintz:
Now, do you incorporate livestock?
David Brandt:
We have a few head. We've done all our work without it. It would've been a whole lot easier if we would've had some livestock to get accomplished. But you can do it with livestock, or you can do it without. It just takes a little longer to get the soil to change without livestock as it does with it.
Martha Mintz:
Yeah. Your livestock is just much smaller and under your feet.
David Brandt:
Yes. Yes.
Martha Mintz:
Okay. So, one thing, you talk a lot about the different things you can reduce. But and it makes sense to say that no-till reduces fuel cost. Did you also say at some point that fuel cost can be reduced using cover crops?
David Brandt:
Yes, because no-till helped reduce the cost of not doing tillage. But we still had some problems with friction of the header and the tires cutting in a little deeper in the soil, which took a little more power. But when you put a cover crop on top of where you're going to no-till, the header slides easier. The piece of equipment doesn't sink quite as far into the soil. Usually, all you see is a little fleet mark. And your fuel consumption goes down. We've seen as much as 10 to 15% less fuel consumed cutting soybeans on rye cover versus their soils.
Martha Mintz:
Oh.
David Brandt:
And we've also seen shelling corn where they're running grain buggies, if they have a cover crop underneath their wheel, the buggy pulls easier.
Martha Mintz:
See, and I would've thought that it had to do with getting rid of your burn-down pass and stuff like that where you probably also save fuel as well?
David Brandt:
Yes, right.
Martha Mintz:
Okay. So, you've figured out a lot of things over the years. What are you working on now?
David Brandt:
Well, I'm really trying to build our farm on nutrient dense. We're trying to show that as we do regenerative farm practices that the quality of the grain is much better. So, if we can feed higher quality grain to our livestock, that means the meat that we will get from that animal or milk that from that animal, could have more amino acids and more protein. So, in essence, I'm hoping we can help the human race and be more healthy.
Martha Mintz:
Have you worked on determining if that's... Is that still just a theory, or have you guys proven that out at all, that the nutrition follows through?
David Brandt:
Well, in most of our corn we're shelling now, we'll run it between eight to 11% protein depending on the variety. It has been tested by Ohio State. We also, when we increase the protein in a grain, we increase the test weight. So, we're now shipping a lot of heavy test weighted corn. And when our livestock producers buy them, they tell us that, especially in the hog operations, that the pigs go to market probably five to seven days sooner. They seem to be more healthy. They seem not to make as much noise in a finishing barn. They don't seem to be as flighty. So, those are things we've noticed with little higher quality grains than what our conventional neighbors' grains are.
Martha Mintz:
Interesting. That's fascinating. And I look forward to seeing what you guys are able to achieve there. Well, in closing, do you have any fantastic advice to offer somebody who is looking into getting into cover crops on their farm?
David Brandt:
Well, I think they need to start with, if they're not no-tilling and they're not using cover, I think the easiest way to get started is use the rye after corn. See how well they get along with that. That way they're used to green. And they can either burn it off early, or they can wait and plant into it, or do a little bit of both and see how it works. The only advice I got to give them is it's not easy.
David Brandt:
And you have to take the time that you would've spent doing the tillage, and the working the ground, that time you spend with a shovel walking through the fields, looking at the roots, understanding what you're trying to do. And try to find other people that's doing like things, so that you can talk to each other, and mentor each other to make it work. Because it's a lonely road by yourself out here, if you don't ask for somebody for some help.
Martha Mintz:
Yep.
David Brandt:
And there's a lot of good people throughout the United States today doing exactly what we are. And actually, have taken cover crops farther than I ever thought they could go.
Martha Mintz:
Having traveled the whole United States, there's a lot of places where people are like, "Well, David's in Ohio. Surely they can do it there, but not here." Have you ever found a place where you just can't make cover crops work?
David Brandt:
I don't think it's not been the cover crop won't work. I think it's been the mindset. It is a little more difficult. It takes more management. It's pretty easy to go out, and take the plow or the disc out there, and dry out the ground, and disc it, and level it up. And then put all the fertilizer, and chemicals, and fungicides, and the seed in the ground. And then all you got to do is pray that it rains. And if it don't, they turn the pivot on.
David Brandt:
So, we take a crop that I call a good crop, grass crop, and they turn it into a hydroponic type of deal where when we're doing regenerative farming, we're actually helping the plants. We're helping hold the soil moisture. We're keeping the soil cooler. We're not losing carbon by doing a tillage. We save fuel consumption, probably as much as 20 or 30% savings. And I think it's a benefit for everyone. And in these times, I think it's worth thinking about, and talking to people that are doing it to help you get started.
Martha Mintz:
Well, and you have been an incredible resource for many of those people who are now people that folks that are new at it can turn to you. So, we thank you as a community for that. And look forward to what else you can teach us in the future. But thank you, David, for taking the time to visit with us today. And best of luck in your next ventures.
David Brandt:
Thank you very much. Been a pleasure.
Julia Gerlach:
Thanks to Carroll, Ohio, no-tiller, Dave Brandt, and contributing editor, Martha Mintz for that conversation about the benefits of long-term cover crop use. And once again, we'd like to thank our sponsor. Solving the soil health puzzle, La Crosse Seed has you covered. Cover crops are an important piece to future profit, but it takes work, and is puzzling at times.
Julia Gerlach:
La Crosse Seed delivers quality Soil First cover crop products, plus training, and tools to help you succeed. Whether you're looking to grow your cover crop seed business, get product tips, or find a local Soil First dealer, La Crosse Seed is ready to help. Learn more at soil1st.com. For more information about all things cover crops, visit us online at covercropstrategies.com. Thanks for tuning in.
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